just another fun with creationism...

[Elaine]

http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Creationism
please remember, I am a God fearing person, but I strongly believe in evolution... and if it includes a big bang, so be it!

[ecidyalpsoeddog]

I've never quite got my head around why we should fear god, if this great ineffable creator is so forgiving and loving then why should we be afraid of him?

I remember (while at school) asking the preacher during RI why he was droning on about tossing me into a lake of eternal fire. I asked him, does god loved me more than my father? Oh infinitely more says he. Well that's strange, says I, when I'm pretty certain that my own father would never dream of chucking me in a lake of eternal fire. That one was well worth a trip to the principals office, and the accusations of heretic, heathen and even atheist from yet another screwy preacher. I am agnostic, and I believe it was enduring people like that which made me this way.

Hmm... It's a bit like that other inconsistancy, when your lovely sweet old granny passes on, and then comes back as a scarey ghost. :-)

[Elaine]

well sorry, the expression god-fearing can be confusing. In the Bible (New Testament) it refers to people who are not jewish, but still accept God.
Your school experience is kind of creepy and probably one of the reasons many people turn away from God. But what I learned in my church is that God wouldn't throw you into eternal fire ether.
Was your preacher in school catholic?
Anyway would you like to try to go to a non-denominational church here in the USA? I was really frustrated with churches myself when i still lived in Germany...

[ecidyalpsoeddog]

Thanks but no I'm a practising agnostic. I chose that. I believe in god, but I do not believe in religion. :-)

[amber]

umm, God-fearing does not mean being afraid of God; that is as preposterous as you can imagine it would be to be afraid of your own father if he is loving and forgiving. It actually means to be in reverential awe of Him. I always wondered that growing up. English's horrible problem with same words having different meanings has definitely made Christianity a lot harder to understand. I don't believe many Christians even know the difference.

I, too, have my own soap box with religion, but am still a Christian in the "true" sense of the word. I don't view myself as religious--only in persuit of truth. I've had too much happen to me and people around me to not believe in God. I don't think believing from experience in a Creator and his revelations to humanity is religious. Religion is routines and rituals void of God, something I try to steer clear of.

[Kanard Rossi]

In the Bible it is written that GOD is to be feared over those who can just kill, and do no more. But HE,(Jesus'DAD), after HE has killed,(HE has struck men dead) has the POWER to cast the deceased SOUL into HELL, where it will be tormented FOREVER. It is also written that the fallen angels fear GOD for this reason, as that very Hell was created specifically for thier everlasting punishment. This tells me that Hell will be a much worse experience for a "dead mans" soul than for the Angels for whom it was intended.

Just because GOD loves you doesn't mean that He will not kill you, and throw you in Hell. He gave his Only Begotten Son, so Humans could avoid this Hell.

This is where GODs responsibility as a loving DAD ENDS!!!!! You are to do YOUR PART!!

He clearly showed his love toward us by having his Son sacrificed for our SIN, and HE will not tolerate any S*** from any of HIS Kids ,just because they assume HIS love will somehow prevent a deservimg PUNISHMENT!!!!!!!

This is where YOU ,E-DOG , and others ERR GREATLY!!!!!!!! Assuming you will make DAD putty in your hands.

NOT SO!!!!!

Ol Joe Smith- a "dead man"- in his own words, knows this now.

The Jehovahs Witnesses in HERESY also claim that a "Loving Father" would not throw his Children into "Gehenna" as they like to say.

My, MY........HOW THESE HERETICS WILL BE SURPRISED, when they are tossed into the LAKE.

Joe Smith saying , an Angel told me this,

Mohommad saying, An Angel told ME THAT,

But Paul said to the Foolish Galatians (see GALATIANS-New Testament)" If I or an Angel preach unto you a DIFFERENT JESUS, or Gospel........LET HIM BE ACCURSED(condemned to HELL).

These two, along with the Jehovahs Witnesses definitely preach to me a DIFFERENT JESUS

THUS CONDEMNING THEM TO HELL.

Where Mohommad is Preaching to us a DIFFERENT Jesus.....One that spake as a babe., Mohommad confusing the prophesy"out of the mouths of babes and sucklings have you ordained praise". He confuses Jesus triumphal entry into Jerusalem, with his NATIVITY. Now the muslims will question the validity of the Bible, but it is the very Bible that MOHOMMAD USES TO GET THESE ACCOUNTS, they damn their own disputings. No one questions the validity, and accounts of Homers novels, the Illiad, and Oddysey. It would be like Mohommad taking out excerpts from the Illiad, and using them to dispute, the GREEKS own texts.............INSANE!!!!!!!

.............. (the radicals should be told FEAR NOT THEM WHICH KILL and have power to do NO MORE) cuz that is ALL THEY DO IS KILL.....that is thier limit.

Joe Smith does the same thing......Preaching a different GOSPEL, one that claims NOAHS sons were the source of the Nephilim.........

.......RIDICULOUS.......

The Sons of Heaven were responsible,(see Genesis ch 6), there is NO WAY to confuse the TWO. Even the BOOK of JUDE re-iterates that it was the "Angels that sinned" that were not spared.

Thus DAMNING THAT blasphemous goat JOE SMITH.

Both these Men slipped up, not taking into Account the MODERN MAN that would come in the Ages ahead!!!!!!

[amber]

please don't shout at us. yes, there are things to fear about God, just like I would be afraid of my dad when I didn't listen. But that shouldn't be what motivates us to love God. "I love you because you scare me." Is that what we're supposed to say to Him? He knows our hearts. I never understood what loving God meant until I let go of my literal fear, and gained reverence, which after a while led to actual love. It's a process, and that process was not driven by fear, but by my desire to know the Creator.

God may have wrath, but he's a softy, too. He made a way to Him when He didn't have to. He gives us freedom, and He gives us His love no matter what. We don't have to tell people to be afraid of him. If they come to believe and pursue Him, they'll learn about who He is, and part of who He is is the almighty Father. I've come to know Him, so I'm not afraid of Him anymore because nothing I will do can separate us. Why? Because I let Him guide my life.

I'm not saying our freedom gives us a license to go around doing whatever we want. Romans can explain that for me. But it is freedom--of choice, of love, of belief... A good father, if his grown child was doing all the wrong things, wouldn't use force all the time to get the child to stop, he would give him instructions, hoping the child would follow them to keep out of trouble. He would let the child learn, and sometimes if the child doesn't learn, he steps in. If the child still doesn't learn... He always pursues him, but no matter what, won't force the child.

The story of the prodigal son-- yea, that's how God is. So you can yell about being afraid of God all you want, but I think you're over-emphasizing it... a lot. I'm not trying to be mean, just real.

If people truly care about their lives, maybe they'll realize this about God like I have and take it into consideration... If not, that's their choice and they'll have to deal with the consequences-- on and off of earth. It's their choice.

[amber]

me too, perhaps not as strongly because i think there is more to learn and there are mistakes. but it definitely does not hinder my relationship with God.

[Monica]

To this day, I am still being told that I am not a religious person because I claim my "faith" to be Paganism. Pagans by the way are still being considered heathens, immoral, sacrificing goats-blood drinking looney's!

To break it down, the best way to sum up the basic beliefs of Pagans is that we respect ourselves, others, and our surroundings. We don't judge if you are Catholic or Lutheran. We don't press our faith on others. You can still choose to belive in one GOD, or many. The best part is, when you meet others, they automatically respect you just for who you are being a part of natures balance.

[ecidyalpsoeddog]

The crazy fundys are to blame for situations like this, often they find it hard to accept and co-exist with another persons views. Being Scottish I have a foot in the past and often have read into the lives of the Druids from whom Christians steal so much (eg, adorning Christmas trees and much more). It's really hard not to appreciate their culture, simple relationship with the creator, ingenuity, religious devotion, and even architectural brilliance which is still evident in places like the Hill o' Doune (near where I grew up) or in the many standing stone structures. Probably the most remarkable structure is in Northern Ireland in the Boyne Valley, which was known of in many nations in OT biblical times as a center for astronomical studies. I look and laugh at the large amount of Druid places and customs which were simply Christianized and today which are practised by Christians who are too ignorant and brain-washed to even know where it was 'borrowed' from. Saints who used to be pagan gods, etc... etc... It all adds up to the point that I most definitely reject Christianity as a religion. Mostly since no religion should tell a person not to question. Find your god however you can. As I said if I am Agnostic today, I put the blame on the hellfire and brimstone fundys, whose 'god' would chuck us all in the lake of eternal fire. There is no other way of interpreting the words "god fearing Christian" - other than obey without question. As Galileo and countless others who fell out of step for just exercising their minds found, it is the church we should fear - but we should never fear god. Instead like Galileo, we can strive to know the mind of god and our place in his plan.

[amber]

You're right about fundamentalists making it hard to coexist, but don't hate-- they just think they're doing what's right. The Bible (from what I can recall reading so far, and that's almost all of it) doesn't say not to doubt. Extremist/fundamentalist Christians are the ones saying not to doubt (which would be legalistic). But the increasing Christian perspective says, "go ahead and doubt, it makes you search for your creator." It is actually my doubt in Christianity and religion as a whole that has made my actual faith stronger, and loosened my ties to "religion." I actually searched. I searched other religions, history, the "why," & etc., and ended up Christian but in a totally different way than before. True Christians accept doubting believers with open arms, and don't scold... but that's another soap box I don't know if we should get into on this thread.

I think the biggest, if not only, problem with the church is pride. If you think about it, any problem with it stems from pride.

[Kanard Rossi]

It is written "He that doubteth is damned"...........This pretty much sums up the benefits of doubt.

[ecidyalpsoeddog]

You seem so keen to damn the rest of us, but what makes you so convinced that you are saved and that we are not. Ever heard of the sin of pride? And by the way, why are you using the boards of this TV show as a vehicle for your minority opinion. Last word you'll get from me on this. DARWINISM IS THE TRUTH. WE EVOLVED from lower primates, and no amount of unscientific pseudo-gospel rubbish from no amount of deluded unscientific brain-washed fools will convince the sane majority otherwise. Go preach somewhere else.